See it’s not only you guys who are brainwashed with garbage.

I have been struggling to get Frank’s hip turn to free up for 4 months now.

Finally yesterday, I told him his right hip needed to get deeper (for the umteenth time) and he tried to. It was still restricted and his right elbow was still on the verge of being behind the hip ( another thing we have discussed many times).

Finally he says to me…”You have been telling me this for a while, so explain this to me. How can I get that hip deeper without my knee straightening some?”

To make a long story short, we both pulled our hair out (although his head is shaved) for the next hour discussing all of the bad thoughts he still believed to be true that he was told by others. There was lots of cursing.

He assumed I thought these things were true and I assumed he knew they weren’t. So they never got discussed.

He turned his hip more, got free into his right heel, his arms stayed connected and he says, “Wow, that feels like a turn now.”

It’s hard to believe that people still think coil and x-factor are valid.

He got an exemption into the Web.com event in Pittsburg next week and is hoping for one in Boise as well. He needs to play more.

He took me hunting for the first time and I literally fired my first ever rifle shot. I am one for one. Bagged a wild hog at 100 yards. Perfect shot from a standing position while the hog was moving. Frank was impressed.

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34 Comments

  1. Dave

    Will look for him at the Mylan Classic! About 10 minutes from my house. Couple of goofy holes
    But usually in good shape.

    Reply
  2. woody

    “…got free into his right heel…”

    Reminds me of a Rocky Thompson feature on Golf Channel. He starts out by saying that all George Knudson (multiple Tour winner and video guru) said was Right-Heel, Left-Toe. (I wouldn’t mind feeling that at the top of my backswing.)

    Then, Rocky says Nicklaus talked about a shot Tom Watson missed, and Nicklaus said Watson didn’t load his right heel. And, Rocky finishes up by saying that Nicklaus was a “pretty good stick,” and you might wanna pay attention to what he said.

    So, you’ve got that going for you.

    Reply
    • Dave

      Ok, so what triggered the deeper hip turn? I’m always struggling with that!

      Reply
      • woody

        It doesn’t matter what actually triggers it. When Hogan wanted to trigger something, he invented an imaginary external elastic band. Whatever works. For him, maybe that was better than something real.

        However, I can’t get over the idea that it’s your right hamstring…if what you did earlier facilitates it.

        Your hamstring muscles control movement of your hip and knee, help turn your leg in and out, and are involved with power activities that include a lot of propulsion, thrust and control (such as jumping, climbing, and running).

        The hamstring muscles are located on the back of your thigh. They work closely with your quadriceps muscles (front of your thigh), your gluteal muscles, and your calf muscles to ensure proper movement of your leg and hip.

        Hamstrings rotate the lower leg when the knee is bent….so if your legs aren’t bent at address, this theory is out the window.

        This drawing isn’t an ideal golf orientation, but you can get the general idea.

        http://soccerlens.com/files/2008/11/hamstring.jpg

        Don’t just take my word for it. Researchers have done electromyleographic golf swing studies, and they say that the hamstring muscle is what works the right lower body in the backswing…for what it’s worth…if you set up correctly…and initiated the backswing “correctly.”

        Reply
  3. meateater

    I believe the concept that the rgiht knee should remain in the address position goes back to some guy named Hogan. His seminal book Five Lessons says exactly that, although even a cursory examination of his actual swing would show that he did no such thing.

    Pretty much all the elite swings on Tour allow the right knee to straighten quite a bit on the backswing. The other thing they have in common is they do not push off with the right leg to initiate the downswing hip turn. The right leg pushing off to start the turn is often taught as basic fundamental, but it creates a lot of problems, eg sliding and hip stall. Look at almost any elite swing and you will see a very passive right leg being pulled around by the hip, not vice versa.

    Reply
  4. Gofourthegreen

    100 yards! Standing! Sweet.

    Reply
  5. HoldTheLag

    Mmm wild hog!! How was the BBQ!!

    Reply
  6. Mike Divot

    Your left foot and left shoulder should be forward of your body and your left foot pointing toward the target. Your foot position is important – do not have your feet too far apart, the heels should be about 30cm apart (the feet generally should be as far apart as the shoulders), assume a natural feeling position, lean back slightly and little to the right as this will help balance the rifle and give you a COG between the left leg and the centre of the body. The hip is thrust out when leaning the body back slightly, providing a support for the left elbow. The weight of the gun is supported by the left leg’s bone structure. The amount that the hip is moved is dependant on the build of the shooter. It is important that the posture is comfortable and stable. Again, the backbone should form a ‘T’ with the shoulders; because of the slightly curved stance the spine is not completely straight.

    Remember to apply a steady consistent pressure until the trigger break. Gently squeeze the trigger – don’t pull or jerk it. A popularly taught concept is that the shooter should not anticipate the shot – it should come as a surprise when the trigger breaks. If a shooter however knows his gun he should know the stage at which the trigger will break, but the idea behind this teaching is the importance of concentrating on the sight picture rather than the act of squeezing the trigger.

    There are four different types of trigger: the single stage, the two stage, the set trigger and the electric trigger. The two most common however are the single stage, which when pressure is applied fires the rifle without there being any take up, and the two stage (which is more common), where there is some movement when pressure is first applied (the take up) before a heavier pressure is felt which when pulled further fires the rifle.

    Hold your breath for the instance whilst taking the shot – body movement while inhaling/exhaling can move the shot off target.

    Follow through with your shot – do not drop your rifle as soon as you pull the trigger. Resist the urge to check your shot but keep it on target (this is particularly important for air rifles as the pellet does not travel the length of the barrel as fast as in a firearm), there is a risk that even the slightest movement can move your shot off of target, which may at short ranges be negligible – but is more pronounced over a long distance and in competition situations any loss is significant.

    Do not hold your shot for too long if you have not fired within about 7 seconds of finding your position relax and do not take the shot. Lower the rifle and start again. If you hold the position too long you will lose the steadiness and concentration you need to take your shot.

    Your left foot and left shoulder should be forward of your body and your left foot pointing toward the target. Your foot position is important – do not have your feet too far apart, the heels should be about 30cm apart (the feet generally should be as far apart as the shoulders), assume a natural feeling position, lean back slightly and little to the right as this will help balance the rifle and give you a COG between the left leg and the centre of the body. The hip is thrust out when leaning the body back slightly, providing a support for the left elbow. The weight of the gun is supported by the left leg’s bone structure. The amount that the hip is moved is dependant on the build of the shooter. It is important that the posture is comfortable and stable. Again, the backbone should form a ‘T’ with the shoulders; because of the slightly curved stance the spine is not completely straight.

    Understanding these concepts is essential to good shooting.

    Reply
    • woody

      This sounds like shootcrack.

      Standing, with no rest (bipod, etc.) it was a great shot.

      Reply
    • calvin

      :):):)

      Reply
  7. pcb_duffer

    [snip] It’s hard to believe that people still think coil and x-factor are valid. [snip]

    But if it wasn’t valid they wouldn’t put it on the cover of all those golf magazines! (Does WordPress have a sarcasm setting?)

    Reply
    • woody

      What if X-factor was valid…but the way MacLean reverse-engineered it from photos was a misinterpretation?

      http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/XfactorSad.jpg

      And what if “hip turn” and “shoulder turn” were in the nature of geometric observations…not dynamic movements?

      Reply
      • Monte Scheinblum

        You would be correct. Just like long hitters get more lag, flexible guys get more X-factor…but you don’t get lag by using the hands and you don’t get X-factor by restricting the hips.

        Reply
  8. Wally

    guns are for pussies

    Reply
    • woody

      If you were going to hit a pig (make that a piglet) with a club, would you be thinking about your upper & lower body?

      People who have been contaminated by golf instruction sometimes need anti-swingcrack to fight swingcrack.

      It’s like…um, matter and anti-matter.

      Reply
  9. Steve Bishop

    X factor is meaningless. Kinetic sequence is the real deal when you understand it. Firm right leg helps to allow the sequence to start from a fully streched condition. A full stretch doesn’t HAVE to happen in the backswing but it does help with timing. You will stretch at some point and if its too late in the forward swing then you have almost no chance of squaring the clubface and unleasing you total accumulated power.

    The positioning of the right elbow helps to flatten out the plane which allows the torque of the body turn propel the club rather than allowing the arms to separate from the body turn.

    Monte’s advice is likely spot on for a good portion of better players who produce tremenous torque but lose clubface control.

    Reply
    • woody

      I’m sure you can out-golf me with one hand, and maybe blindfolded too. But, I’m calling BS on you…kind of. A firm (locked) right leg does not allow that leg to wind-up, or the body either.

      The position of the right foot, and the rotation to the right (right-hander) makes the leg FEEL firm, but it’s not the kind of firm that resists leg or hip rotation.

      Turning hips as a unit is not any kind of an athletic move. The movement is predominantly with one leg at a time, or you’re off-balance. So, the idea isn’t to resist a “hip turn”– but not to think about doing that in the first place.

      If you’re going kinematic on me, I think this is a good way to start a modern-type backswing:

      http://golfillustration.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Golf-Swing-Hip-Rotation.jpg

      But, you’re not trying to move the hip bone (at least I’m not). This small move from inside the right hip (mirror-image of Hogan’s elastic band on the downswing) turns the right hip, the upper leg, and the lower leg.

      If the right shoulder area starts rotating back to the target as soon as this starts, your right hamstring is ready to join in, and you’ve got “hip turn.”

      (X-factor is not meaningless–but I don’t like it as a goal. Without X-factor, neither your abs nor the left side of your back get wound-up.)

      Reply
      • Steve Bishop

        An increased X-Factor will not make a better swing. It simply won’t. What matters is the application of torque at the key moments FOR THAT GOLFER. It’s the same deal with lag. Trying to make it big and released at the latest time possible is a falacy. But again that’s because when someone applies torque will be unique to that individual.

        With the right hip, I’ve always viewed that the right hip essentially stays as stationary as possible while the LEFT hip (right hander) is the one that is in motion rotating around the right hip. Sort of like a door swingin around a door hinge. Then the near reverse happens on the forward swing once the left hip has been re-planted in a new location.

        There are certainly other ways the hips can move and all are usually to accomodate a players tendency to shift his or her balance and coil within that balance.

        A sturdy right leg is helpful in achieving both a good coil and balance.

        The coil is necessary to help facilitate a smooth transition of energy from the feet and legs up through the core muscles of the back and abs. There IS a flow of energy which has been established. Having some stretch between the hips and shoulder turn is good, but making it bigger is nonsense. What really matters is how smoothly that energy is transitioned from the lower body, to the upper arms and ultimately hands. Each muscle group along the way adding to the energy in a timely manner as to not disrupt the timing of the other muscle groups that need to fire afterwards.

        Yes that sounds very complicated and I’m not the type of person going around telling every student of mine about how the Kinetic Sequence happens, but the fact is science has really helped us gather and evaluate the data. Not a single shred of that data I’ve seen has ever ONCE said increasing someone’s X-Factor helps their swing. Not for distance, accuracy, swing path, or kinetic sequence. None.

        Reply
  10. Jason

    Hey Monte, do you think it would be worth having Frank hitting some shots from 1 leg? This would promote a deeper hip turn for sure.

    Reply
  11. theMIKE

    Monte, why is this only you who’s brain is not filled with garbage?

    Reply
      • theMIKE

        no insult in there, but, look at this lad:

        Where is the deep hip turn?
        There is no coil, right? look at his hip and knees, hardly doesn’t go anywhere, look at his rear ellbow, bad isn’t it? Wherever this guys tees it up, you hear that sound a 1000 yards around.

        I am as tall as alvaro and without any restriction, I would be off all the time (ellbow, I am sure you know how bad a heel hit feels in your fingers if you turn as quick as Alvaro).
        sure, you know your students better then we do..

        Reply
  12. calvin

    Genesis of swing-crack: I move the club from start to finish in the same time frame as Rory. His ball flies 300 yards accurately. Mine flies 200 yards unpredictably.

    Reply
  13. calvin

    Right hip.

    Reply
    • woody

      Rory McIlroy: “On the whole I don’t like to complicate things too much. I’ve always played my best golf not thinking about very much to be honest.”

      Reply
  14. woody

    “How can I get that hip deeper without my knee straightening some?”

    –Welll…for $129 he could buy a Perseus Anchor…keeping the flexion of his back knee in a stable position throughout the entire golf swing. This would be the stupid way to deal with it:

    http://www.rotaryswing.com/golf-training-aids/perseus_anchor?category_id=0

    –Or, he could watch Peter Kostis do Ian Poulter about 100 times, and maybe get rid of the idea that he has to micromanage the right knee:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf96Xhx2kqM (0:52) Kostis does Poulter

    Reply
  15. Jason

    That alvaro video symbolises whet is wrong with golf instruction. He is gifted in he’s range of motion and trains every day, but in no way should we emulate that swing.

    Reply
  16. woody

    Virtually all pros swing like Alvaro. You might have a point that the average out-of-shape desk jockey can’t do it. The problem for imitators is that the pros use body parts that amateurs don’t even know that they have. (Pros don’t know either, they just do it.)

    I’ll grant S.C. credit for being one of the first gurus to dispute X-factor, regarding resisting with the hips. And that was a long time ago. Nice one.

    However…S.C. is in a world of his own. He is the only known living golfer who has a move like the drawing on the cover of Percy Boomer’s “On Learning Golf” (1942).

    http://www.golfvideosandbooks.com/1007.jpg

    Tossing your hips around is begging for a back injury. It’s not an athletic move.

    The purpose of the backswing is to get wound-up and loaded–creating a potential for speed on the downswing. You don’t do that by resisting with the hips…and you can’t do it after the move has already begun.

    X-factor is simply a continuation of the standard procedure of reverse-engineering videos to create instruction…and misinterpreting the videos in the process.

    The primary misinterpretation–the root of all the garbage–is turning hips and turning shoulders. Modern pros don’t do it. They wind-up their body and swing their arms.

    Hips and shoulders are just indicators. You don’t get lag by holding the lag, you don’t get X-factor by resisting with the hips, you don’t get shoulder turn by turning your shoulders, and pros don’t try to move their hips as a unit.

    Do shoulders move as a unit around your spine? Take a look at what Steve Elkington says about it–if you can make it through all of Mike Maves’ comments. For best results, begin at 1:41:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM-tghOzX-I (3:17) Maves & Elkington:

    Reply
  17. Jason

    I agree to disagree. There is a very good reason S.C. is one one the most popular instructors on the net.

    Reply
  18. Rob C

    Monte..Frank gave you probs (unfortunately not by name) today on a radio show in Baltimore. He said, I finally found a teacher that knows what he’s talking about, instead of all the garbage I was getting from other guys. That’s paraphasing him, but it was very close to that.

    He seems very happy with the way he’s hitting the ball and playing right now.

    Reply

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