My swing

Starting feel good about this.

My whole career I have locked my right knee at impact and actually sometimes reverse rolled on the outside of my right foot. I am aware of why that happens, but have had a hard time beating it as I have only been aware of some important cause/affect concepts in the golf swing the last few years…and no one, including a few big names had a clue either.

If you go to my YouTube channel, you can see all of that from the past few years. When I long drive, I don’t care, because the fairway is huge and I have six balls. It basically happens because I pull the handle way too hard in transition and create steep hands, sometimes steep and sometimes shallow shaft and a major in to out path.

That locked right knee caused me all sorts of issues in my palying career…foul balls at inopportune times being the worst. I didn’t do it as badly the shorter the club, but the issue is just masked on shorter clubs.

I still have a ways to go, but at least I don’t feel like I have to wrestle the club on every shot to keep it from going in someone’s pool or e base of a jumping cactus.

Thanks to Tim, a reader of this blog, who made this video after his lesson today.

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28 Comments

  1. exilgolfer

    Love the sound of the slow motion…

    Reply
  2. Dave

    Your swing looks great. It would be interesting to hear Tim talk about his lesson(s) and the progress he’s made with his swing.

    Reply
    • Tim

      I’d be happy to talk about my lessons with Monte. A little background for context: I am currently a poor golfer by anybody’s standard. This isn’t some “aw shucks bit” either. I suck. If you can read this, I’m worse than you.

      I started last May, and became hopelessly addicted to this game after some dumb luck rounds in the first few months of playing. When that luck faded, I went the conventional route and got some lessons from a nearby assistant pro that did nothing for me. Frustrated to the point of quitting, I discovered Monte’s online lessons and after a few of those, realized he was only an hour away from me and decided to see him in person.

      I think I’ve had about 5-6 lessons thus far. I’m not going to lie, it hasn’t been easy. I didn’t show up once and walk away with a perfect swing, but since this was never promised or expected, it was never an issue. As Monte will attest, I am a unique case. My swing issues are the opposite of what most people face, and I get the distinct impression that Monte has never had a client like me before. This actually seems to excite him. I’m like a patient who wandered into his clinic with an exceptionally rare disease.

      To be clear, the main diagnosis has remained consistent from the start. My upper and lower body are severely out of sync. By the time my arms reach impact, my hips are already sitting in the cart. The challenge has been figuring out ways of dealing with this.

      The primary working feel that we’ve discovered is scandalous enough to get him banned from golfwrx, but it is basically, “swing without turning the hips.” It feels completely odd right now, but it looks right and the results (when I execute it) are great. And yes, my hips do still actually turn. It’s just a feel, but it has been a big breakthrough.

      Yesterday’s lesson was four hours long, so its been no walk in the park, but Monte is obviously extremely generous with his time. He’s never let me leave a lesson feeling confused or down about my game, which is why it takes so long.

      Reply
      • woody

        “My upper and lower body are severely out of sync.”

        –And, that’s why the Classic type of teaching has never produced any results. You have to be a great athlete to do it. Modern pros are not doing what Bobby Jones was doing. These days, Bubba is about the only one who is close to it.

        http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/bobby-jones-3.jpg (Bobby Jones)

        Here’s what Moe Norman said: “I don’t balance my swing, my swing balances me.” That makes me believe that he, Hogan, and the Modern swingers were/are not trying to coordinate hips & shoulders.

        You have to be a great athlete to recover from what Gay Brewer and Billy Casper are doing in their backswings in the LINK below.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrZ41y-8RsE (1:11) Gay Brewer, Billy Casper

        You can get a lot of power doing that, but modern Tour players are not trying to move their hips…or resisting with them either. Their hips move as a result of doing something else, not because they’re trying to move their hips. In my opinion.

        Reply
      • Calvin

        “…….my hips are already sitting in the cart.” 🙂

        That is funny Tim. I think you will become a player. That good sense of humor will speed your progress.

        Reply
      • IPM

        “By the time my arms reach impact, my hips are already sitting in the cart”

        This made me do a spit-take.

        Reply
      • Bruce

        Thanks for the explanation, Tim. I’m taking on-line lessons from Monte and hope to see him in person at some point (although I’m in FL so it’s not as convenient as being in SoCal). Did you find that seeing him in person sped up the process? Doing it on-line has some advantages, but I also think there’s a huge benefit for the doing it the old fashion way. Do you have any comments on that aspect?

        Reply
      • Tim

        Bruce, I will respond to your post tomorrow. I believe my comment is the blog post for the day, so I will respond then.

        Reply
      • Tim

        Bruce, I think it comes down to how easily you can generate your own feels to make the changes he suggests. I don’t think we’ve worked on any issues that he didn’t point out in my first video lesson, so I think determining the problems is probably the same. But it’s taken a lot of time for us to find the solutions, and that part is much faster in-person, because you have the opportunity to try a lot of things. Monte goes through feels, experiments, setup changes, and drills very quickly. If it doesn’t work, we don’t linger on it.

        I still send Monte videos. I think the combination of online lessons and in-person sessions is optimal, but I could see a better golfer than I doing very well with just the online format.

        Reply
  3. woody

    Yeah, thanks Tim…we haven’t had some decent video of Monte’s swing for a long time. (Too bad we don’t know where those balls were going. That info is never on a video.)

    “pull the handle way too hard in transition”–Some people believe that they’re pulling the handle with their arms, when they’re actually pulling with centrifugal force created by legs and torso. Pulling by turning can give the feel of pulling with the arms…but the arms are getting pulled too.

    I don’t believe that there’s enough power in the arms by themselves, and attempting to pull with the arms will stop the body. So, any puller who can make it work is probably not doing what he thinks he’s doing.

    I believe Feherty was sober in this video, and I think he’s exactly right:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qD085LiFvU (1:02) Feherty

    Reply
    • Tim

      Woody, those balls are going into the trees at the end of the range.

      Reply
      • woody

        Thanks, Tim. Good boost to Monte’s credibility.

        Reply
  4. John Short

    That is a good looking golf swing. Great rhythm and balance, especially considering the shoes look like they would be more at home on the deck on a boat.

    Reply
  5. Calvin

    I had noticed the knee action. It looks like a transmission changing gears. Somebody on tour does that but I can’t think of the name. Those videos looked great; the DOL looking better than the face on.

    Reply
  6. jaybee

    Tim is a great writer!
    To me, your DTL swing looks a lot like that of the currently hottest golfer on the planet:
    http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/swing-sequences/2012-09/photos-brandt-snedeker#slide=1
    Not indended as swingcrack or let alone a suggestion, but here is what I can spot as the main differences- let us in if you agree/disagree/see other stuff please:
    face more closed at 9.00, steeper (butt end ponting inside of ball target line) than him and than the shaft plane (like Rory btw) in H2 of BS and right elbow a bit more connected; as well as a tad steeper than him and that plane in the DS- despite your impressive squat (how on earth do you do that?).
    At and after impact you two look identical- and on some forums you, him and Mickelson might get grilled for rolling over/flipping instead of swinging left with low hands like Mista Hogan then- LOL.
    So if you don’t make those qualifiers, cuts and eventually the Champions Tour, it’s not due to that fantastic golf swing- IMHO.
    I am starting to think that there is either more to the bump (must happen with closed shoulders and or a very low right shoulder like so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xi2BPgyfZ0) and or that the key move is pulling back the left hip instead/ASAP like so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMT0iQ3GS0o to make room for the arms and to flatten that shaft.
    You/Sneds seem to incorporate and do both, but which is one cause and which one is effect, or am I on the wrong track with that observation?

    Reply
  7. Lu

    Your club on the downswing is higher it is on your setup position. In other words your hands at impact are higher than at setup. Not sure what to make of this.

    Reply
    • Robert Johansson

      He must do that or else he hit it so fat like Tiger.
      Plane is a missunderstood concept.
      Its a culprit with the modern swing and lighter shafts.

      Reply
      • Lu

        He’s steeper on the downswing…

        Reply
        • Monte Scheinblum

          Hands coming in higher at impact is not an issue.

          As far as being steeper on the downswing…It is ever so slight. But I am inside on backswing and on plane on downswing.

          The hand path is a little steeper, but the shaft angle is not.

          Snead and Jones just to name two did this is well.

          Reply
    • woody

      “hands at impact are higher than at setup. Not sure what to make of this.”

      –If I understand what you are saying, that is the way that it’s supposed to be. The hands are moving on an arc. The low point of the arc is always before impact.

      http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/RockHandArcPath.jpg (Robert Rock)

      The body moves the hands, and the club follows. The clubhead does not catch up with the hands until here.

      http://www.outdoorsportinginfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/golf-swing.jpg

      Reply
    • Lu

      I noticed this on the DTL video by holding the edge of a piece of paper along the shaft and then playing the video. The hands are noticeably higher at impact (or equivalently the shaft plane angle is steeper on the downswing). I also looked at Wayne Defrancesco’s analysis of Snead’s and Jone’s video’s and both their hands returned to the address position. Wayne Defrancesco even commented during his analysis of Jone’s swing that it his theory that players tend to return their hands to the address position because it makes squaring the club at impact easier.

      I also took a look at Hunter Mahan’s swing (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RziwpQ8cg-U) since I heard today he is one of the best driver strikers in the world today. Surprisingly his hands at impact are above those at address. I think I now know why. At address both arms are hanging down. At impact the right elbow is pinned to the hip (more or less) and the right forearm is much flatter (and the hips are rotated through and a bit up). The result of this has to be that the hands are raised.

      Reply
      • Monte Scheinblum

        When I said Jones and Snead I was talking about hand path of back swing and downswing, not impact.

        You are are leaving out variables such as graphite shaft deflection, anatomy and centripetal and centrifugal force created by 120+ mph of speed.

        Hands returning to the same spot DTL at impact is just another zeroed out position that striving for it can ruin your swing.

        What’s important is to have a good path and face angle to match…and right now I do.

        Reply
  8. woody

    Plane…no wonder I didn’t get it. I have no use for plane.

    Tough crowd. Good looking swing, and it’s going to the trees and the end of the range, and they want…plane? What’s wrong with results?

    Reply
    • Mike Divot

      Agree. It’s like wanting a unicorn.

      Really, there is no such thing as swing plane. Golf instruction would be better off if it had never been thought or heard of.

      Reply
  9. Tim

    I totally agree. I went with a shallow focus on the camera in order to separate Monte’s swing from the background so that it would stand out more clearly. I stand by that aesthetic decision, but after reading some of the responses on golfwrx, perhaps I should have just thrown a zoom on and focused on the ball flight as opposed to his action. These shots were absolute rips. 325+ yards in the middle of the fairway. Plenty good enough for anybody on the planet that can handle a partial wedge into the green on a 400 yard par 4. I understand and appreciate that things can always be better, but the golfwrx thread has demonstrated to me that there are a lot of decent to great amateurs out there playing golf swing as opposed to golf. That thread should have begun with “how far did those shots go” and ended with “320+ and in the fairway.” It reminds me of the guy who claims to have a swing speed of only 120 mph but is concerned because he only hits it 310. He hit 12 fairways last weekend, so it’s clearly driver that’s holding him back. Should he buy the new Cobra?

    Reply
    • Andrew from Belgium

      Where is it in golfwrx? I would love to have a laugh but cannot find it.

      Reply
  10. jaybee

    For a person with an open mind the point of comparing is not to criticize but to learn.
    I think everyone will agree that there are over 100 worse looking swings in each week’s PGA Tour event and that Monte will do most things on purpose as he has probably already tried and forgotten more about the golf swing than we will ever do and be aware of.
    Personally, I find the plane concept useful but as there are quite a few of them around, I obviously can’t take any of them as gospel. For example, as Monte wants me to come in less steep, it is helpful to see that one can hit the ball far and straight without being perfectly on the lines and that other things seem to matter more.
    Low or zero hands at impact on the other hand seems to be the topic of a hotly contested debate that serves little purpose IMHO- I saw too many videos of major winners with higher hands at impact than at adress and can understand the main reasons for that; but to come to that conclusion you must at least be aware that there is such a debate and of the counterarguments.
    I wonder whether the IMHO closed face early on is one factor behind those long drives and whether us kids should (not) try this at home….

    Reply
  11. woody

    Looks like a lesson in…float-loading?

    Ya gotta watch out for paying too much attention to the shaft on a video. There’s a camera effect that makes it appear like the shaft is bowing, when it isn’t. If you want to see “club drag” maybe get a video of Colin Montgomery.

    At the root of what is really happening is core movement. Put a cursor at the center of the shirt collar at the neck of either player–leave the cursor there, and watch his backswing.

    What it all means is these two aren’t initiating things with their hands.

    Reply

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