Flip vs. Cast

I am going to definitively distinguish between these two terms.

They are used interchangeably and wrongly in my opinion. They happen for different reasons…and they are both completely different than a club that releases gradually from the top, when the club face is connected to the turn and rotates with the turn.

When the turn is slightly out of sync, the natural rolling of the wrists can cause off line shots, but it is neither a cast or a flip. It is natural rotation of the hands, forearms and club face, that didn’t quite link up with the turn for whatever reason.

Bad golf shot…big deal.

A cast is when both wrists break down. For a right hander, both wrists get severe angles in them before impact and the hands will be behind the ball at impact. The often cause is either getting the spine in front of the ball before impact or a back swing that is too long and the individual cannot create enough rotation or speed to deliver the club to the ball properly. It can often both of these.

A flip happens when the club is either open, or under the plane coming into impact…usually both. The hips have to stall to allow the club to catch up and the wrists roll right before impact.

A flip is actually close to the right move, it just happened way to late.

An early release is what happens when a proper release is forced too much, independent of the turn (pivot). People who learn that holding the lag is bad and try to retrain their body to make the natural move will do this. They will roll their wrists is the proper manner, without it being connected to the turn and everyone tells them it’s a flip…and it is not. It is just a mistimed proper golf swing that needs to link up.

A flip is what happens when the release is delayed too long. In order to keep the ball from going way right the hands flip the face closed at the last millisecond before impact. Holding the lag and swinging too far from the inside will cause this.

Lots of technobabble, but I think these explanations will help some people trying to learn to release it properly.

Remember, release means let go, not force something.

I am sure there are questions in need of clarification, so fire away.

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19 Comments

  1. Calvin

    monte, when was the last time you flipped or cast?
    😉

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      Cast, never…flip…all the time. That is my miss. I get suck under the plane with an open club and hit a flip hook.

      Reply
      • Calvin

        Okay. So what are you doing to get rid of the flip?

        Reply
      • woody

        Perfect. You can post your situation here and get…um, help.

        Er,…let’s see…sequence issue. Too much shoulders too soon.

        Reply
      • Calvin

        Knowing why I cast or flip is of no interest to me. I’m interested in what I should be doing. I have never been helped by knowing what I was doing wrong. Well, maybe it motivated me a bit.

        Reply
      • woody

        Calvin, you totally nailed what is wrong with a lot of golf instruction, and why I can’t stand Haney.

        It does no good whatever to tell someone what they did wrong. That would only leave a vacuum, and something worse might fill it.

        “I’m interested in what I should be doing.” = Total Bingo.

        Reply
      • Monte Scheinblum

        20 years of lag holding, coming too far from the inside with a shoulder turn that was too vertical and standing too close to the ball is hard to get rid of. Especially when you mix in a little early extension.

        I have a connected release going and working on getting a more level shoulder turn.

        Some weeks I am pro worthy, other weeks I look like a 4 handicap who hits it far.

        Reply
    • woody

      Random suggestion:

      Consider the possibility that shoulders swing instead of turn.

      You yourself have stressed the importance of core strength. Why not use it?

      It just may be that the turning gets accomplished below the shoulders, with the obliques, with the shoulders riding on top of it…and the swing augments what looks like shoulder turn.

      Reply
  2. Jason

    Give control to gravity, pretend the ball is invisible and you are swinging through it.

    Reply
  3. chris

    Monte do you teach in person at all? Im 26 and would like to turn pro next year. Im about scratch at the moment. Im just finding out now about the lag and all the time ive wasted trying to gain it and sustain it. I know you said you lived in so cal on one of your video’s so maybe if its not outrageously far i could drive to the closest range to you for a lesson. Thanks Chris
    cjcollas@hotmail.com

    Reply
  4. woody

    On the subject of coordination, there are 3 basic voluntary elements: 1) Your core, 2) Your shoulders, which are the controlling factor in your swing, without furnishing the muscle power for it, and 3) Your right leg with bun.

    So, with three voluntary factors, that is only 27 possible combinations. Just try each combination, and you’re bound to find it. Then, work on timing.

    Signed,
    Your friendly Spaz

    Reply
  5. Calvin

    Technical s***: Lag is a combination of radial deviation of the lead wrist and extension of the trail wrist. Ideally you will gradually release the radial deviation while holding on to the extension. If the shaft follows the releasing radial deviation you are golden but if it follows the extension you are stuck. This is just something I concocted in an exercise of attempted logic which probably has holes. The one thing I am sure of is that the combination of radial deviation and extension is valid and that holding the “lag” has little to do with 90 deg angles and a lot to do with an extended trail wrist. Watch a slo-mo of Tom Watson.

    Reply
    • Calvin
    • Calvin
    • woody

      I’ll have a crack at lag too.

      It’s a product of getting out of your own way. At the top, Tom Watson’s back was to the target (he said so).

      You don’t have to just “clear your left hip”…the simplistic version is that you have to clear your whole left side before you can fire. In doing so, you get what Moe Norman described as the horizontal tug and vertical drop.

      Natural lag is a product of swing sequence. You’re not beginning to swing at the ball from the top because your left side is in the way. If you swung from the top, you’d cast. The “clearing” produces natural lag as well as rotation.

      Reply
  6. Jason

    Agreed Woody. Moe also left his right leg planted until well after impact. That enables you to maintain spine angle, you body is out of the way and it give you a catapult, that tug you are talking about. Moe Norman, 90% fairways regulation, lifetime. Having said that, leaving you right foot planted as a focus may lead to hanging back, don’t over do it, it should be natural.

    Reply
    • woody

      Moe un-weighted his right foot by rolling his ankle, not the current pro style.

      Right foot coming up means that it’s easier to unwind–a big power source. Anthony Kim called it The Rubber-Band Effect in his Golf Channel Playing Lesson.

      If you want the rubber band to snap, you have to let go of one side…hence un-weighting the right foot.

      Reply
  7. Jason

    Nothing wrong with right foot coming up, it’s the normal thing to do, just doing it too early is the problem. It can cause the underneath of you to slide out and collapse.

    Reply

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