Pivot driven versus arm driven swing.

Pivot driven requires less timing than arm driven…HOGWASH, POPPYCOCK and BUFFALO CHIPS.

The whole debate over timing and pivot versus armsy is a red herring.

All swings require timing and inconsistent swings are because the arms are not linked up properly with the pivot.

Most people who feel armsy have their arms trailing their pivot, the pivot stalls to catch up and that is where the armsy handsy feeling comes from. So in essence, your arms have to start sooner to let the pivot square the club and be less armsy. Anyone who knows anything about the swing will tell you nearly all of it is counterintuitive because it’s so reactive.

The most armsy flippy, swings are the ones where in transition the arms are passive, the hips and body fire, then have to stall to wait for the arms, hands and club to catchup.

68 Ballerina.

The swings that require less club rotation by the hands rolling, are the ones that the arms link up in transition.
Edited by MonteScheinblum, 3 minutes ago.

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11 Comments

  1. Jake G

    Great stuff as usual. This should help a lot of us chops understand this fault of not being linked up correctly. Thanks for your time sharing this. Question that I have is that myself and a lot of others I am sure have heard that “you need to start your arms earlier/sooner” ……..My question is at what point in the swing sequence is the earliest that should attempt to start your arms the other direction? Can they start back down before you reach the top of the swing as you see the hips often do in slow motion sequence or is this even possible? Apologize in advance for rambling a bit here, but for example with my swing personally…..I start them as soon as I get to the top of the swing and I am still too slow with them? At this point do you have to just simply delay firing hips or can they be started earlier?

    Reply
  2. Shawn

    This might be dumb question so I apologize in advance. I have struggled with linking up my arms and we have worked over some video lessons to help correct it. It’s gotten a lot better but I sometimes still fire my hips to soon. Would increasing the rotation of my hips in the backswing help so that I don’t have to worry so much about starting the arms first and delaying the hips? I don’t necessarily limit the turn now but I also don’t rotate to my max. If that makes any sense lol

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      Not dumb, that is helpful. Like most things, though, don’t do too much of a good thing.

      Reply
  3. Rob

    Awesome advice!! Thanks!

    Reply
  4. Shane

    Hi Monte,

    Can you please list all or majority of the feels that you give your students to get them to speed up their hands/arms. For those of us with this swing fault (myself included) it would be useful as a reference to have them on hand.

    Love your point about saying that those who feel ‘armsy’ are the ones that have the hands lagging behind the turn.

    Regards

    Reply
  5. Mark

    Monte,
    I understand that “the arms are not linked up properly with the pivot”. I also understand your instruction that the player needs to work out a transition move (zipper away, lead with right elbow, right shoulder out etc.) in order to link the arms with the pivot. However I do not understand how or when the arms become unlinked from the pivot in the first place. I’ve read all your stuff here and on WRX but I can’t find, or I may have missed a definition or explanation. I suspect that there is something fundamental that I have not grasped because the obvious question is why not keep the arms linked to the pivot throughout the swing from address until after impact and so avoid a problem that needs fixing. Is there a simple explanation you could give me please?
    Thanks
    Mark

    Reply
  6. Michael C.

    If the heel on the trail foot comes up too early in the downswing it will let the hips rotate before the arms are
    connected properly. Does this make sense? If so, is the heel coming up too early a bad habit or the effect of
    something else going on in the swing, generally speaking?

    Reply
  7. PaulK

    Monte I saw one of your comments on WRX about the left arm must come off the chest and the light bulbs started flashing.

    For others I would recommend comparing the feel of starting the downswing with the left arm pinned to the chest and using the upper body compared with starting the downswing with a combination of the left bicep area leaving the chest and the right elbow chasing the belly button.

    It made me wonder if we think we are speeding up the arms rather than using the pivot when the left arm is in fact still pinned to the chest and being pulled by the shoulders. I’m sure that was happening in my case and was causing big straight pushes with the woods.

    Please correct if this is poor opinion or a misrepresentation.

    Reply
  8. Tom

    I imagine the origins of this debate lay in how a swing perceived to be underplane and trailing the pivot produces a handsy release

    In sync equals passive natural release . To get there you need the right amounts of turn and arm motion

    Reply
  9. Mikey

    Monte, love the blog and your site. My current teacher teaches a total body release. Very foley like. To say the least, I started seeing him a yr ago and I have lost so much power it makes me sick. I hit it so solid but the ball literally goes 20 yards shorter. Now he has trackman and he is mr data overload. Passive hands and turn turn turn is what he tells me. I used to be able to swing the club at 108 mph with my hands alone. Now I struggle to get to 100mph with this body spin/turn crap. I’m going to video tape my swing and give you a look on your personal video lesson. Looking forward to getting some fuckin SPEED back

    Reply

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