“The Foley experiment should be over.”
I will confess I didn’t watch one hole or highlight. I only need two pieces of evidence to know this isn’t working…aside from the fact I know what they are trying to accomplish and that will not work for Tiger long term or under pressure very often.
Tiger does not fire 75 on Saturday when he has the lead. Tiger does not bogey par 5’s on the back 9 when he is making a Sunday charge.
End of story. I don’t care how it looks, how pure he hits it on the range or how many Foley followers call me a bitter a-hole. I don’t care about the eagle on the back 9, or that the field backed up and he almost won (there were many good players, but it was not the strongest field)…If Tiger did the two things I mentioned, the swing does not work for him.
Tiger needs to forget gurus. He needs to not hit a shot from more than 50 yards for one month (at least 2 weeks). Then he needs to go to the range and take his 50 yard swing that worked on the chipping green and hit the ball 50-100 yards for a week.
The next week he needs to take the 100 yard swing and hit balls from 100 to 200 for an entire week. Doing his 9 shot drill all day long.
Then he needs to spend an entire week working on the stinger with 2-iron and 3-wood.
Then he needs to play golf every day for 2 weeks without hitting driver.
Then he can go to the range and hit driver.
Had I to do my swing crack purge over again, I would have done exactly this.
He spends 2 months doing what I described with no swing thoughts and no one there but a pair of eyes to judge alignment and posture…he starts dominating again.
He almost won the Australian Open. No offense to that great country’s national open, I wish I was good enough to finish 3rd…but on Tiger’s resume it qualifies as a BFD.
People say it’s getting better? This is almost the same scoring pattern he has had before. In contention, blowup Saturday, charge Sunday, but makes too many errors and comes up just short. He should shoot 20 under and win this event by 7…and he would with a swing that fit him.
This swing he is using is fine for someone that generates 105 mph and so was the Haney swing. Neither of those swings work very well at 120 mph.
Tiger is Tiger. He is one of the most skilled players of all time and he works his butt off. I would be willing to bet if he embarked on copying Jim Furyk’s swing tomorrow, he would come back next year and almost win the Australian Open.
If he wants to break Jack’s record, he needs to stop using this made up, contrived, hybrid, POS swing and get back to what he does best. Getting the ball in the hole.
This is not Tiger’s swing. He may win with it, he may even almost win a major with it, but it is not the swing that fits him. He is just good enough to play well with a swing that doesn’t work for him.
I’ll put it this way. Ben Crenshaw was an all time great putter. He had an open stance with his feet together and used a hosel shafted putter that would balanced toe down. He kind of pulled it inside and hit out on it with face rotation.
If he spent a year with Dave Pelz learning “square to square” with a face balanced putter, and a wider, square stance, he probably would still be a great putter…but it wouldn’t be his stroke, it would be Dave Pelz’s stroke and it would be contrived and not as effective.
That is how I see Tiger’s swing under Foley.
The Australian open had a quality field so it wasn’t as easy as you think. That course very difficult too. I’m not defending Tiger, his swing is crap and failed him on Saturday. Lost it by the 3 strokes he dropped Saturday when the pressure was on.
Tiger only finished well becasuse the course let him get away with lots of irons off the tees. he was only hitting 3-4 drivers per round, and only half of those were playable.
The stinger with the lomg irons was back, but he looks very uncomfortable with the driver. even the good drives look awkward.
Tiger needs to get back tp being a self absorbed “Whore Monger”. (what young man isn’t ?). Cut out all this kinder gentler B. S. I liked him better that way he was more fun to dislike
Since you didn’t watch it, I’ll give you some observations.
First, he got beaten by two strokes by somebody I never heard of. And, also by John Senden, who isn’t exactly household name. There were a couple of quality names in the field, but it wasn’t what I’d call deep.
Second, his short game was phenomenal. He could easily have finished 5 shots worse, from some of the places he put himself.
Third, his putting was not the problem.
The putter caused the 75, not his swing on Saturday. Other than the first 3 holes it did just fine.
Sunday, anyone would have had trouble making par on that par 5 when the ball ended up sitting down in sand. He probably advanced the ball 20 yards and still had a fairway wood in for his third. Would have made par if not, for.. His putter.
Fwiw, Jason Day made bogey on that hole too from just off the fairway for his second shot.
As long as tiger keeps too much weight on his left side…………slides & dips through the shot……..he’ll continue to hit it fat & be a flipper……….
whether foley knows it or not….he teaches a flip……
For those interested in Foley’s swing-crack, and how it may be hurting Tiger, this article is as good as any I’ve seen:
I guess next year he’ll be at Q School like Duval, Weekley, Beem, McHeel, Begay, Jantzen and the guys. That would probably rate a special production from espn. 🙂
Not quite. Once he had 20 wins, he never had to worry about Q-School. Lifetime member at that point, he can get into any event he wants minus invitationals. He’ll get into every major until he’s way old, except for the US Open. That auto invitation runs out in 2018.
Not only that, you get a 2 year exemption for every event you win up to X years. Pretty sure even with 2 bad years, he’s got about 6 years left of fully exempt status.
Looks like Foley has a little flip and lower body stall in this swing. Just so you know, Foley’s biomechanical guru is Chris Welch (non-golfer) and he’s is a major proponent of the segment interaction theory/kinetic chain. Of course his “knowledge” is being passed on to Tiger………….
from the great one in Hawaii
Monte is right. So is rojoass. Foley is a disaster. He teaches a flip release. His s tar pupil, Hunter Mahan, has an extremely complicated release. Does Tiger really want to try to duplicate it? Tiger seems to need a guru to lean on. The obvious solution is for him to swallow his ego and go back to Butch. The other choices, eg Leadbetter, Peter Kostis, the stack and tilt guys, that guy who ruined mickelson, are even worse.
The other choice is keep the driver in the bag and play like Stricker.
What’s complicated about Mahan’s release? It’s a pivot based release that’s really not that complicated at all.
Let Mahan tell you what he thinks he’s doing. A complicated release is not mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb47rMFf-J8 (2:39) Mahan speaks
^ This. It’s a bunch of turning and letting the pivot dictate the release, not hand manipulations. I mean if turning is tricky for you, well then yes this may be complicated.
Mahan does not swing like tiger. Mahan does not swing like foley is trying to teach tiger whether he is foleys “student” or not………
while we’re here……let’s all smoke crack………..PGA Tour Release Styles
Sep: PGA Tour Release Styles
ok one more puff
Thanks rojoass, we’re on the same page.
Monte, is Bear Creek close enough that you might go watch some of the Q school agony? I see Duval will be there.
It’s about an hour away. I would never do that. It’s like getting in a really bad car crash and then going to a NASCAR event.
Everybody forgot the elephant in the room.
No one beats Father Time.
Let me start by saying that I’m a great admirer of Monte, his teaching and his general attitude to golf anf life in general….
But I’m getting sick of all the endless criticism being levelled at Foley and his swing ideas. A golf swing by definition is a completely artificial movement, so to describe what he teaches as “contrived” simply means it doesn’t conform to what the critic regards as “conventional.” Is there a more “contrived ” movement in all athletics than the Fosbury Flop ? yet I don’t see many Western Rollers any more….there are many different ways to hit a golf ball efficiently ( just look down the driving range at any PGA Tour event to see what I mean ) and Foley’s “centred ” method is inherently no less valid than any other.
I happen to think as a human being Tiger is a piece of execrable shit, and have enjoyed his fall from grace enormously. But he is an immensely talented golfer ( actually that’s about all he is ) and sooner or later he’s going to win something using the Foley method, hit some great golf shots along the way, and prove all the naysayers wrong. The fact that he could win using pretty much any swing method is neither here nor there. But when he does I’m really going to enjoy all the scrambling for excuses from the so-called “gurus”….
That’s all fair. Possibly a poor use of language. My point is that this swing does not fit Tiger’s body or skill set. He could use anything and be good (see my copying Jim Furyk swing comment).
I just do not believe this swing works for him. Just like the swing that was taught to me didn’t work for me. Just like if someone tried to teach im Furyk proper mechanics it wouldn’t work for him.
Monte, many thanks for your reply – now you really have aroused my interest ! As far as Tiger’s body is concerned, Foley also has Hunter Mahan and Sean O’Hair in his stable – not too dissimilar I would have thought ?
Could you elaborate on what you meant by Tiger’s skillset ? As an S+Te’r myself I’m conscious that the swing model is ideal for irons but tougher for the driver ( although I personally have never had such problems ). The driver remains Tiger’s biggest weakness because of his macho/ego desire to hit it as hard as possible – is this what you mean ?
I believe S&T and keeping your weight left is not bad for someone with a lower swing speed.
However, for someone who has a higher swing speed and a history of getting his arms stuck, it is a bad idea.
In addition, Tiger did very well with a slight lateral move off the ball, so keeping his weight left is another issue with his natural way of doing things.
Thanks, interesting. I was surprised when I heard about the Foley connection, because this kind of swing puts more weight on the left side, which given Tiger’s history with his left knee surely can’t be advisable ? Especially if he goes back to doing lots of “reps “( what a ghastly word by the way ) on the practice ground. I haven’t seen him on TV for some time but there were comments in his last tournament about how gingerly he was moving sometimes.
David, on the subject of Tiger staying left with a bad left knee…I thought the same as you.