Cause and affect vs. overall perception.

Right now I have conflicting ideas with other instructors and those “in the know.” I have seen a few posters comments here about golf instruction being too “cause and affect” and I would tend to agree.

I am cause and affect sometimes, but I am trying to be a little more perception oriented because I think that is where most of the problems lie.

Like when I talk about amateurs wanting to help the ball in the air causes a laundry list of problems, instead of what actual physical problem “A” causes issue “B.”

Goat Humping is a popular problem. I say the perception of wanting to swing inside out and hit a draw and/or wanting to hold the lag causes this issue and the club gets under the plane and forces the goat hump.

I have been corrected by people telling me the goat humping causes the club underneath….etc. etc. Of course the goat humping starts first, as the lower body shift is the first thing that starts an “in sync” down swing. (Not the turning of the hips, but the shifting. The turning happens in sync with the upper body turning.)

I see it a different way. I see it as people think they want to, “Swing inside out and more shallow and want to hold the lag…and to do that you must lead with the lower body.” That leads to them extending the hips out toward the ball to get the club moving in that direction.

If I can convince them they don’t have to swing inside/out so much, or hold the lag, they won’t want to create that outward hip thrust.

If they swing on plane and release properly, the hips will shift and rotate properly.

So take away the bad perception and the bad movements disappear.

Micromanaging precise movements individually is hard.

Wait, that should be my swing theory. Remove the bad perceptions and the bad movements will cease to exist.




  1. Dennis

    I am a 5 handicap down from a 10 since I began reading your blog. You are known in my circle as Mr.Cargo Pants. One of the best descriptions you have ever given is Goat Humping. I was shanking on the range, shoulders level to my spine, when my shoulders stop turning my swing was complete, releasing the club…shank. I then remembered how sexy that goat can be. I resisted the urge and now FEEL what you are talking about. Shank cured. Dont know if that was the cause but I am a reformed goat humper…baaahhhhh. Thx!

  2. Bob34

    “Remove the bad perceptions and the bad movements will cease to exist.”

    I think you’re exactly right and this is why I suggested awhile back having phone lessons. A video lesson is all about cause and affect. You can see what’s happening & you can guess why but you may not fully understand the students perception of why they do what they do… It seems even Haney is starting to understand this; get the student to get all of thier preconceived notions out of thier head, then the student can really trust the instructor… To me, this is why golf instruction fails more often than not. You take a lesson, the instructor gives you something mechanical to work on but no matter the instructors qualifications, the student doesn’t really trust that instructor knows/understands their individual perceptions. I’d be willing to bet that if an instructor took the time to really understood all of the things a student thought about how to swing a club and hit the ball, the instructor could improve the students ball striking without ever seeing thier swing. Combine that with seeing the swing and the student will really improve… Supposedly, Harvey Pennick was awesome that way.

  3. Calvin D

    Isn’t stack and tilt a goat humping swing by design?

    • Monte Scheinblum

      It can be. I am not sure it was designed to be that way…I don’t know.

  4. Mike

    what is goat humping?

  5. Doug B

    Monte – would you consider “aiming point” techniques which specifically try to move the low point of the swing forward and create more forward shaft lean at impact to be part of this attempt at micromanaging precise movements – which can wind up doing more harm than good for some players? Do you feel that the desired end result of more forward shaft lean is the result of a sound natural release, like “natural lag” versus forced lag?

    • Monte Scheinblum

      Yes to the first part and getting more forward shaft lean is a result of improving your swing. Trying to get more forward shaft lean and any technique that has that as a goal, goes against my ideas for swinging in sync and simplifying things.


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