Iron Byron and Perfie

(Today’s blog post will be succinct but helpful)

You have heard of both of these robots and we have been told they make perfect motions and we should copy them.

Science has yet to make a robot that works as wonderfully as the human body. These robots don’t have the same hinges or working parts as a human body. I want to yell several expletives at the people who want us to copy them.

I also want to fire curses at the people who want us to copy the swings of Ben Hogan and Moe Norman or some other system that is supposed to fit everyone(but you all know that already).

Let me say this loudly.

WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT, BOTH ANATOMICALLY AND MENTALLY. WE SHOULD NOT BE COPYING THE MOVEMENTS OF OTHER PEOPLE OR MACHINES.

FIND YOUR OWN GOLF SWING THAT MATCHES YOUR BODY AND SKILL LEVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me take that back. I am going to get a bad hair piece, become as arrogant as possible, have my own show where I tell people how they are not as smart as me, name everything I own after myself, ruin a fledgling football league, build crappy golf courses and say they are better than Pebble Beach and lie about my handicap. Apparently that will make me the richest man on Earth. At least according to myself.

Really folks, we need to get out of this rut we are in about “the right way.” On this blog I suggest a lot of ways to improve that fit natural body motions. Balance, rhythm and getting out of your own way by eliminating things that don’t need to be there. Again, that is the “right way” of doing things.

My semantic mantra. It’s not about doing it the right way. There is no right way, just wrong ways. It’s about avoiding the bad things that get in your way.

OK, maybe not so succinct. Rant over.

Previous

Next

25 Comments

  1. torpet

    Monte,
    please feel free to express your take on “educated hands” while your’e videoing the proper release.
    T

    Reply
  2. Jon

    This post was like a breath of fresh air to me, until I read the “on this blog I suggest a lot of ways to improve that fit natural body motions”

    In the same way that certain good movements are not good for everyone – the same can be said for faults which are no bad for everyone.

    So, really your just slating yourself.

    🙂

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      Not slating myself. I am proposing there is no right way, just wrong ways. I am suggesting some of the possible right ways.

      My mantra is not doing what is right, because right is different for everyone, it is avoiding what is wrong.

      There are some universal correct things. Balance, rhythm and avoiding some bad ways of doing it…false lag, back swings where the arms and hands take over, restricting hip turn, turn shoulders too level to the ground, etc.

      Think about it this way. If I came on here and said this is the only way to do it and everything I say is the way everyone should do it…I would be no better than the systems and instructors I criticize.

      I suggest several fundamentals I believe are important, several actions I think need to be avoided and if one or two click for you and improve your game. Great. If all of them do, even better.

      Reply
  3. Andrew

    Monte,

    What are YOUR swing thoughts if any? I’ve found your “plane and release by feel” segment very helpful. For years I battled tops off the tee because I was trying hold that angle in my wrist thru impact. Very tough to shoot good scores when your 100 yds. off the tee.

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      My swing started getting better when I decided to release the club…that is my one swing thought right now.

      Reply
  4. ric

    Are you saying that Trump’s hair isn’t sexy?
    damn, what am going to do now that I glued some Bermuda to my head!

    Reply
  5. bobinpa

    Monte, I’ve seen your video on proper release. However, it seems to stop at impact (on the one I saw). Can you go one step further and explain what happens after impact? Do you consciously release “left” or is there some other thought you have – or then again no thought at all!

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      It looks to stop at impact because it is an illustration of a move at a very slow speed in order for it to be very clear how the body is working. At full speed, whether it is at 120+ mph in my swing, or in a swing of 80 mph, or anything in between, it will be a constant natural motion all the way into the finish.

      IMO, there should be no thought. If you have no excess tension and the release is working in sync with the turn, it will all work exactly the way it is supposed to with no thought.

      NP on saying my name wrong. 🙂

      Reply
  6. Paul Wilson Golf

    So what you are saying is that we should not turn our bodies in a circular motion, not hinge our wrists and not maintain our spine angle? Well it just so happens that Iron Byron does those 3 things and hits the ball perfectly every time. I realize that the golf swing can be confusing. What you have to do is simplify it and see it a little differently. Please take a look at myself and Iron Byron and decide you would like to copy it or not. Remember … it hits the ball perfectly: http://www.swingmachinegolf.com

    Paul Wilson
    Creator – Swing Machine Golf

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that we should not copy the swing of anything or anybody. Everyone has a move that is individual that can be found through a process of eliminating unnecessary moves that are getting in their way. Copying what a robot or Ben Hogan did is not the path to that. There is no right way to do things, only wrong ways. That is my opinion and I stand by it.

      Most golfers are not robots and their bodies don’t work perfectly. Most golfers do not hit balls every day for 10 hours a day like Hogan. So designing a complicated system of copying those moves is an overload of info that most people are not physically able to perform, nor logistically able to practice enough to get there.

      EDITED: Took a look at your website and video. I have the urge to be petty, but I will refrain and just say, how can you copy the swing of a robot that has one connected arm and no moving parts in the lower body, not to mention nowhere near the same moving parts in the hands and wrists? Wait, you don’t copy it, you just happen to have copied some of the shaft angles and superimposed them. Check out the terms “duck” and “scratch” in the blog vocabulary section. OK, maybe a little petty. 🙂

      All kidding aside, if you have gotten people to pay you $200 an hour to learn that stuff, more power to you.

      Reply
  7. Paul Wilson Golf

    Monte,

    Why would you say my system is complicated? You know nothing about it. In fact, my teaching is not complicated at all. It is simple because I only work on the 3 things I mentioned above and I get amazing results.

    Arm

    The arm of the Iron Byron represents the golfer’s left arm in the downswing and through impact. Then, it represents the golfer’s right arm after the ball is hit. In a human swing one arm should always be extended so you maintain the diameter of a circle just like the machine. Example: If the average golfer chicken wings it through impact they are not copying Iron Byron. Therefore, they will lose distance and accuracy.

    Legs and Body

    The motor of the machine represents the golfer’s legs. It’s driveshaft represents the golfer’s upper body. When the golfer uses their legs and lower body it turns the upper body which moves the arms because they are connected to one another.

    Keep in mind Iron Byron was modeled after the swing of a real golfer; Byron Nelson. Here is an interview I did with the inventor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEpnY-5yNbs

    If you can just see the swing a little differently you really can play better than ever before. Just give it a try. You will be glad you did.

    Paul Wilson
    Creator – Swing Machine Golf

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      Any time you teach positions, it’s complicated and for you to tell me I don’t understand it, shows me that your understanding is not what you claim it to be.

      I will say it again. Iron Byron has fewer working parts than a human body by a huge margin and copying that or anything else is a bad idea. This is my blog, I state my opinions. My opinion is there is no right way and your system is what is wrong with golf instruction today. Again, my blog, my opinion…and I can promise you I won’t be acting like you and coming to one of your golf schools and telling people your way is wrong and you don’t understand what you are talking about.

      PS-You talk about chicken wings. You have a bit of a right chicken wing in your swing before impact, not to mention a bent left elbow at the top and Byron set his hands way better than you do on the way back…so maybe you should learn your own system a little better…but Jim Furyk has some poultry in his right arm before impact..so apparently, that isn’t all bad. See, no right way to do things.

      Reply
  8. Paul Wilson Golf

    I actually do give people a lot of lee-way when I teach them the swing. I do need those 3 things to be present though because they are seen in all good players swings.

    Right Arm

    The right arm should be bent at impact. It doesn’t fully straighten until approx. 2 feet after impact with irons and approx. 3 feet after with woods. This is due to the body tilting right in the downswing and the club reaching the maximum point of inertia.

    It’s funny that you should bash my swing. Says a lot about you. Have fun with your blog.

    All the best,

    Paul Wilson
    Creator – Swing Machine Golf

    Reply
    • Monte Scheinblum

      Wow. You come here and tell me I don’t understand things, I poke a little fun at you and you say it says something about me? I think you feeling the need to come here to my little neck of the woods and prove to me that your way is right says something about you.

      Something about a pot and a kettle.

      I did not bash your swing. I commented that your swing does not mirror what you teach. I clearly criticize my own swing and ways of doing things to make the readers feel we are all in this together and even someone who has accomplished some things in golf has the same issues as the regular guy.

      Reply
  9. Paul Wilson Golf

    Well, you did not understand how Iron Byron works. I didn’t either when I first saw it swing so I explained it and backed it up with a video from the actual inventor just so you didn’t think I was pulling this stuff out off thin air.

    All I am saying is that better players have the 3 elements of Iron Byron. Sure, a human has more moving parts but when the actual inventor says they took high speed photos of all the best players of that time and chose Byron Nelson’s swing to model the machine after why would you not want to take a second look at it and understand it? After all, it hits the ball perfectly.

    I have no problem proving my method to you or anyone else. I have done this in the past and the pros who have seen me in action are flabbergasted at the results I get. And how fast I get them. I also have over 3,000 testimonials that have been sent in expressing the fact that my method works. Plus, I have seen it with all the people I have who I have taught over the years.

    You see … at one time I was a great player then I lost my swing (because I decided to learn the fundamentals). It took me over 10 years to get it back. I took the lessons, used the training aids, and tried every tips and trick. Sorry if I’m a little touchy when my method is compared to what is typical. In no way do I want to teach the way others do.

    Next time you are in Vegas (for a long drive competition) stop by and I will more than happy to show you the results I get. If I am in your neck of the woods I will look you up (I don’t know where that is).

    Paul Wilson
    Creator – Swing Machine Golf

    Reply
    • Peter Balogh

      Hello Mr. Wilson,

      Iron byron has an active wristhinge. I guess that the robot could not hit the Ball correctly if the hinge would be loose. Why is that so?

      kind regards,

      Peter

      Reply
      • Peter Balogh

        Oh and another thing, are you aware that in this youtube video you are hitting way above the plane with the club behind the hands just like Monte is describing it? What are your mishits? Pushes und pullhooks?

        Kind regards
        Peter Balogh

        Reply
      • Paul Wilson Golf

        The wrist hinge is loose in the sense that you can grab it and swing it back and forth like I did. The reason it has gears is to stop the club once it swings through. When they first created it they did not have brakes or gears and it would snap shaft into the ceiling. The moral of the story is the hinge opens / squares / and closes which is what your wrists should be doing in your swing. This is what I refer to as an unrestricted hinge.

        Thanks for the question.

        Paul Wilson
        Creator – Swing Machine Golf

        Reply
  10. Peter Balogh
    • Paul Wilson Golf

      My miss hit is a pull only. I have the odd heeler as we all do that fades back into the fairway about 5-10 yards.

      When I play (which is rarely) I hit about 80% fairways and if I miss a green it is only by a few yards. I never have that shot that goes off the planet like I used to. This is because I am not trying to hit the ball in any way with my arms. I let the club swing wherever it wants to. I rarely practice which is great because when I was experimenting and working on trying to get my swing back I was hitting 1,000 balls per day 7 days a week (I counted them). This got me nowhere.

      Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes.

      Paul Wilson
      Creator – Swing Machine Golf

      Reply
  11. geoff duncan

    You have a higher opinion of Trump than I do. Also, I disagree with Paul about the position of the right arm at impact. It’s going to be pretty straight if it’s going anywhere.

    Reply
  12. Paul Wilson Golf

    Sure the right arm is pretty straight at impact. It is not perfectly straight though. It does not straighten completely until approx. 2 feet after impact with irons and approx. 3 feet after with woods (look at the distance between the elbows at these 2 points and you can clearly see they are closer after impact which means they are fully extended after impact versus at impact.

    To understand it further think about set up for a second. At set up both arms are stretched out and the face is square. This makes a letter “Y” between the arms and shaft. This letter “Y” position is then re-created after impact because your body is tilted right at impact. Because of this tilt at impact, you are closer to the ground which accounts for the descending blow and divot that is taken.

    All the best,

    Paul Wilson
    Creator – Swing Machine Golf

    Reply
  13. owen goetz

    does iron byron make any noise

    Reply
  14. Peter

    This has been a fascinating discussion on the merits or otherwise of the mechanical golf swing focusing on a single axis pivot point. What it really emphasises is that the human swing is done by the arms but it is essential for the individual to determine which arm (shoulder) needs to be the central axis pivot whether it be left or right. You can clearly play the game using one or the other but it also eliminates the mid central axis of the spine as being the essential mechanical fundamental of the swing other providing stability for the axis.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Share This
X